Weak areas

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Weak areas

Postby Zardoz » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:02 pm

Hey gang, can you post replies to this with what you feel a class's biggest weakness is in post-champion life? Could be something as vague as self-healing, solo ability, downtime, lack of AOE, etc.

To be clear, this isn't a suggest a new skill/spell thread or anything else. You can feel free to post about that in another thread. I'll be removing posts that aren't on topic.

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Re: Weak areas

Postby Thael » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:22 pm


My thoughts on Heralds:

I dont know a bout weakness, but i feel Heralds lacks alternatives to Cry of Havoc, its a great spell but its the only damage spell for Heralds.

Also, I guess this goes for more classes then just Heralds but even with high hitroll I miss alot of my attacks.

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Re: Weak areas

Postby Wizord » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:19 pm

Weakness as I see them, I will leave off suggestions at this time, also bear in mind, I like some of these classes, I am not being critical of them in that way:

Knights: Lower DPS than other warrior subclasses, main group role is stun, and when mobs are not stunnable they get stuck doing deadly strike. Decent Soloability however it has been called slow to me.

Paladins: Paladins only do shackles in groups and some of their skills/spells seem a bit unbalanced. Some spells do the same damage as others for the same price. The alignment penalty for shackling a good mob is heavy, and without shackles their choices are limited on good aligned mobs.

Berserker: I guess berserker could be a bit boring. I'm not as familiar with playing this class as paladin especially but also Knight. Boring mainly because they are very one-dimensional in groups.

Thief: Thief is like a mini-assassin but their backstab can't kill the same level of mobs as an assassin. They are very challenging to solo and even with the combo system they don't bring as much to groups as other classes. They are fun in player versus player but it would be difficult as is to pour time and energy into this class.

Assassin: Another one dimensional DPS class. Once they get to 60 its a waiting game until their damage roll gets high enough to kill 50k mobs, until that point they are stuck running lower level mobs and the delay on backstab can make it pretty annoying. In a boss fight they circle repeatedly and beg for enlarges, and although it does nice DPS it could be a bit boring.

Ruiner: Ruiner is difficult to solo, they are reliant on satanic touch and gruesome mending. They are great in groups and every group wants a ruiner, but spamming cripple might not be the most fun thing for the ruiner. The difficulty of soloing may turn a lot of the ruiners off before they get really good.

Ranger: Rangers have a lot of utility but fail to be self sufficient easily and they fail to feel like they have a purpose in groups. They mostly like the class but entangle and a boar bonus for group mates isn't enough to warrant a ranger over a different class when given a choice for an EQ run.

Archmage: Archmage is reliant on charmies to solo and that can get really old after awhile, it is still difficult to use any other spell but arcane missiles when soloing even though aether bomb could be a really neat spell, it ends with a net loss of damage over the course of a few rounds of combat. Once the "distance" was removed for casters the soloability was lost for archmage.

Sorceror: Sorceror is fairly one dimensional on DPS and groups with just spamming big damage spells and I supposed it could also get a bit boring. Their spells have two round lags which also could be annoying.

Necromancer: Necro has a huge number of skills and I'm not sure they all still make perfect sense. Necro is a little bit overwhelming for new players due to all of the skills and spells that they have. They seem to have a longer spell list than any other class. They have no AOE. The ghouls and spectres constantly die on bosses.

Shaolin: Shaolins don't seem to do a lot more DPS than shadow sun, and they don't tank nearly as well. Most people wouldn't choose Shaolin for a boss run over another class, and soloing capability is probably not nearly as good as shadow sun or other subclasses. The level 60 skill has always been an issue, it uses ki and most shaolins complain bitterly about that, and the limited effects that are produced from it.

Shadowsun: I don't know.

Mystic: Mystics might have limited help in a boss run. Empathetic shield seems pretty good under the right conditions but it does have a two round lag, so the incoming DPS must be higher than just using a ki DPS attack twice. Ego whip does not seem to make a huge difference on bosses, although at times it helps a berserker or the mystic himself land his shots on lower level mobs. I think it could also help with dispel runs and such, and the mystic can do side healing pretty effectively with a 230 point heal. They just don't seem to have a big contribution in boss fights I suppose, great soloing tho.

Druid: Druid does a lot of things but I supposed seems half ass at most of them and not the greatest in any of them. Their healing is less than an avatar, dps less than an arch mage, and treant less than a knight. They need to excel at something, to be chosen over another class for a group in most circumstance. If we do choose one for a group they are usually in dryad mode as a side healer.

Herald: Soloing seems a little difficult at lower levels and they end up spam healing their 120 point heal 400 times and spamming themselves and everyone else. They want to use essence but cant much of the time.

Avatar: Soloability of avatar is the main issue. Can't always get a group and when a group can't be gotten it is just so slow. The xp bonus is nice but it's just too boring to do it for very long. I think with spellpower the avatar lost their dps of their weapon hits and then a few of the dps spells have been nerfed. The self healing of the avatar is lower than healing on others as well, and using an avatar tank or tanks in general is difficult for most people and boring for all people.(i think)

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Re: Weak areas

Postby moner » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:56 pm

no way to see into the dark like the other tank classes, and have no melee manual attacks that do not cause a long delay before you can do anything else. Once they get to higher champ levels and increase their hp's to above a certain point, when they are being healed, it feels like the healer is using cure wounds, healers heal power does not scale well with large hp pool
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Re: Weak areas

Postby Aowey » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:55 pm

Hi all,

My thoughts on the necro class:

first of all some number crunching
My lich form is at 69% by now, numbers are according to that.
Flesh Decay (FD) does around 500 dpr (damage per round) and heals for about 105 hp.
Spirit Rend (SR) does about 800 dpr and heals for around 135 hp.
Blood Spear (BS) does around 950 dpr and costs 200 hp.
I can only estimate that the lich does around 200 dpr on average, it is really spikey because it sometimes casts useless weaken or target instead of a damage spell.
Same with the ghoul. He seems to hit maybe half of the time when soloing, so probably at maximum 200 more dpr.
And the zombie, well... fuck the zombie.
All assumptions with decent profane surgery body parts and at least lvl 60 corpses. Without the minions do much less.

I can't keep up spirit rending manawise for very long so I mainly run with flesh decay. That means 500 dpr from the spell + a very generous 400 dpr from the minions. But there is also blood spear:
Blood spear makes me do less damage on average the more damage I take. Thats due to the fact that I can either use hp for BS (highest damage) or to survive. So if I heal much more from my FD or SR than I lose in the fight I can BS more often and do more damage. Also I use less mana because BS doesn't cost any of it. Thats a great and interessting mechanic and I like it a lot.
But here come some small issues I have with soloing nevertheless:
I can't really say much about the damage I do because I have no numbers from other classes. It feels poony compared to my shaolin but thats probably a bad comparison. The only thing I don't really like is the stacknation. Shaolin had a really significant boost on dps on lvl 120. Necros are quite done at lvl 30.
Empower undead is a useless spell. I sacrifice FD, so 500 dpr and 100 hp heal for it and with it the opportunity to do even more dpr with BS. So my minions should get a boost of significantly more than 500 damage over the three rounds. I don't see that happen. Especially because keeping up profane surgery at all times is really hard to pull off. So I stick with FD instead and never use empower undead.

Boss runs:
Here comes the real problem I see with necros. First of all the minions really suck on boss runs. The ghoul never hits (the problem of all melee fighters) and all minions die almost instant on every AoE or spellcasting boss. Also its even harder to keep them surgeried due to the long breaks without any kills. And when the follower bug kicks in again they can even whipe a complete boss run group so they are dangerous to keep. In conclusion I mostly don't even use them on bosses.
Then again a necro has nothing else to offer for boss fights than damage. Sigil is yet another more indirect type of dpr. But dpr wise a necro can't compete with the high dpr classes. So there is no reason other than lack of alternatives to take a necro to your boss run. Okay, a necro can keep himself alive and doesn't need heals, on the other hand he cannot be healed anyways and if he needs that heals he loses even more dpr because he can't cast BS.
I strongly believe that every class should be able to contribute something to a boss run though. Let it be damage, heals, buffs, debuffs or utility stuff. So I think necros need anything from that type.
I've made some suggestions in the idea thread already. I couldn't come up with more yet but I think about that from time to time. Unless you explicitly tell me to stop :)

Hope that wasn't to long. But I like to back up my balance complaints with some numbers and arguments to make clear that I at least put some thought in it and don't just want another OP superclass. (Okay, I secretly want that but I know that would break the game!)

Have a nice whenever you read this.

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